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Thread: How the Wii u could have been saved.

  1. #1
    Let's go to bed! Glacier's Avatar
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    How the Wii u could have been saved.

    Instead of writing an award winning novel I'll just get to the point.

    1. Early on there should have been a gamepadless SKU with a pro controller and a REALLY aggressive price drop to make up for having a normal joe console that's weaker than the others. They could gave reprogrammed the OS and everything so that it was pro controller friendly at all times. Sure SOME games would be incompatible but at the end of the day the titles people would be there for would work just fine and sales would have been much better meaning more games released.

    2. Market to adult gamers, not children. I've been over this a million times. The Wii u ads all made the system look like a children's toy and embarrassed their userbase and turned people off of the system. Switch is doing a great job with marketing in contrast, this is what should have been with Wii u.

    3. I ran out of ideas yo


    I know the pro controller SKU idea is controversial but let's think about it. The Wii u's entry price was pretty high for what it was. I had to issue with it but it was a niche product due to the gamepad+ poor marketing + price. Imagine if Wii u became a value focused system meant to do gaming well. $199 with a game? That would have FLEW off shelves faster than you can say Wii u is doomed.

    The situation is done, is just for a look back. I personally loved the gamepad but I always knew it held back the success of the system. Luckily Nintendo is doing an excellent job with switch. It's price is a lot more justifiable to the masses because it has that cool factor and convenience no other system has. A stationary home console needs to offer what really matters to consumer. That's games and a good value.

    Your thoughts?
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  2. #2
    Releaser of the Hounds WoodenSaucer's Avatar
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    As weak as it was compared to the competition, it would have had to have a massive price cut for what you're saying to work.
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    Senior Member riseBLUEsun's Avatar
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    I don't think the game pad was the problem. I think the way Nintendo handled it was. They didn't even use half of its potential. Aside from Zombii U, most games only featured "off TV mode" or an item management screen. There could've been so much more done with the game pad if Nintendo had actually tried.

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    Let's go to bed! Glacier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WoodenSaucer View Post
    As weak as it was compared to the competition, it would have had to have a massive price cut for what you're saying to work.
    That's what I am saying...$200 would have been fine. But as long as the games were there then it would have been justified. Power isn't gonna be on people's minds when a system is cheap and has great games. The alternative would be to keep Wii u how it was and it failing

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    Releaser of the Hounds WoodenSaucer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glacier View Post
    That's what I am saying...$200 would have been fine. But as long as the games were there then it would have been justified. Power isn't gonna be on people's minds when a system is cheap and has great games. The alternative would be to keep Wii u how it was and it failing
    I think it would have needed to be under $200.
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    1. Should have been lower priced or higher priced with better specs.

    2. Should've had marketing.
    2a. Of the little marketing it did have, it should have appealed to all demographics.

    3. Should've had a mainline Mario, Zelda, or Metroid. (Or in the case of Zelda, it should have had it much sooner.)

    4. They should have ditched Amiibo. They were a decent idea, but they overused them majorly to lock content behind the figures (see: Splatoon). Or in other cases, they were completely worthless in games (see: Star Fox Zero). And like all popular Nintendo products in recent years, they were very hard to find in the first few months, maybe even longer than that (see: NES Classic and Switch).

    5. GameCube VC might have helped. I'm pretty sure they promised it at some point but never delivered.

    I used to wonder why the Wii U never sold. Looking back, it's not hard to see. It was underpowered and undersupported, even by Nintendo, with it lacking a main 3D Mario, Zelda (until the release of the Switch, aka its death anyway), and Metroid.

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    Let's go to bed! Glacier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WoodenSaucer View Post
    I think it would have needed to be under $200.
    With ps4 at $400, $200 is fine. That's literally half the price. People don't care about specs as much as you are led to believe. The Xbox one X would be significantly more popular than the ps4 if it was such a big deal.

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    Moderator the ancient gamer's Avatar
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    Games.

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    Out of everything, the #1 problem was Nintendo's attitude. Coming off the success of the Wii, they thought they could coast through that generation without much effort.

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    Quote Originally Posted by the ancient gamer View Post
    Games.
    This. /\ /\

    Nintendo just half-arsed and mismanaged what was a great little console. Game droughts, lazy ports (mostly from Nintendo) and eventual abandonment is what killed it.

    Look at a game like Lego City to see how the Wii U should have been utilised and showcased.
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    Releaser of the Hounds WoodenSaucer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glacier View Post
    With ps4 at $400, $200 is fine. That's literally half the price. People don't care about specs as much as you are led to believe. The Xbox one X would be significantly more popular than the ps4 if it was such a big deal.
    Then we're back to the circular argument that they do care about the games that low specs prevent from coming. So if you're not going to get all the games, it needs to be below $200. And I'm talking about for one without a GamePad.
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    Let's go to bed! Glacier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WoodenSaucer View Post
    Then we're back to the circular argument that they do care about the games that low specs prevent from coming. So if you're not going to get all the games, it needs to be below $200. And I'm talking about for one without a GamePad.
    There would have been a lot more games coming than what actually was there. $200 with a game valued at $60 would have been realistic and the best case scenario. Plenty of people would have gotten it for exclusives at least. I would expect making a gamepadless SKU would have at least made the system sell 2.5 times better than it did. We also go into a circular argument that this would have just turned into a library similar to the 3ds's just like how switch is doing, but it would have gotten games like far cry 4 and dragon age Inquisition, any last gen game basically. Offering a different experience to the brown shooter boxes is what it would become in 2015 and beyond.

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    You forgot change the bad name and actually make games for it.

    And I don't really care, but saying make a gamepad-less version is the same as saying make a Switch-TV. It completely defeats the purpose of the system. Is it worth it to drop the price? In both cases I'd say yes personally, but I'm pretty sure you won't for a tablet-less Switch.
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    Let's go to bed! Glacier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kahhhhyle View Post
    You forgot change the bad name and actually make games for it.

    And I don't really care, but saying make a gamepad-less version is the same as saying make a Switch-TV. It completely defeats the purpose of the system. Is it worth it to drop the price? In both cases I'd say yes personally, but I'm pretty sure you won't for a tablet-less Switch.
    Gamers don't care about silly gimmicks on a stationary home console. Portability is a benefit especially for busy adults or people who move around a lot. Switch doesn't force you to use non traditional ways of playing. It's a normal game system that is a hybrid. The Wii u isn't that. The tablet thing wasn't working out, so it would have been best to give it the kinect treatment.

    Switch's hybrid design is objectively making it fly off shelves while history has proven numerous times that gimmicks on stationary home consoles are fads for a time and fail. Wii was a success because of it's fad that died out. Kinect, psmove and Wii u gamepad....where are they now? That's a question I don't need to answer
    Last edited by Glacier; 07-14-2017 at 08:36 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glacier View Post
    Gamers don't care about silly gimmicks on a stationary home console. Portability is a benefit especially for busy adults or people who move around a lot. Switch doesn't force you to use non traditional ways of playing. It's a normal game system that is a hybrid. The Wii u isn't that. The tablet thing wasn't working out, so it would have been best to give it the kinect treatment.

    Switch's hybrid design is objectively making it fly off shelves while history has proven numerous times that gimmicks on stationary home consoles are fads for a time and fail. Wii was a success because of it's fad that died out. Kinect, psmove and Wii u gamepad....where are they now? That's a question I don't need to answer
    It's all subjective my friend. It's pretty clear people like the gimmick of the Switch much more then the Wii U, I'm not going to argue that. I'm just telling putting in perspective what "remove the gamepad" means.
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    Releaser of the Hounds WoodenSaucer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kahhhhyle View Post
    It's all subjective my friend. It's pretty clear people like the gimmick of the Switch much more then the Wii U, I'm not going to argue that. I'm just telling putting in perspective what "remove the gamepad" means.
    All except the IR camera that nobody even knows is on there.
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  18. #18
    Let's go to bed! Glacier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kahhhhyle View Post
    It's all subjective my friend. It's pretty clear people like the gimmick of the Switch much more then the Wii U, I'm not going to argue that. I'm just telling putting in perspective what "remove the gamepad" means.
    It's like "remove the kinect" from xbox one. Microsoft was going on and on about how kinect was.vital to Xbox one and blah but then they took it out, got a better boss and listened to what people wanted and the xb1 brand is now saved.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glacier View Post
    It's like "remove the kinect" from xbox one. Microsoft was going on and on about how kinect was.vital to Xbox one and blah but then they took it out, got a better boss and listened to what people wanted and the xb1 brand is now saved.
    The Xbone brand is saved? Last I checked they stopped making exclusives and were still miles behind PlayStation. But Xbox did other things as well. They put a focus on games (and then swiftly dropped that focus), they made a revised model that has new functionality.

    But yeah I dunno if Nintendo should be looking at Xbox for an example of what to do.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kahhhhyle View Post
    But yeah I dunno if Nintendo should be looking at Xbox for an example of what to do.
    Microsoft is the most consumer friendly of the three now. For the longest time they were the complete opposite. But with Spencer at the helm, Xbox is much more attractive.


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  21. #21
    Let's go to bed! Glacier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kahhhhyle View Post
    The Xbone brand is saved? Last I checked they stopped making exclusives and were still miles behind PlayStation. But Xbox did other things as well. They put a focus on games (and then swiftly dropped that focus), they made a revised model that has new functionality.

    But yeah I dunno if Nintendo should be looking at Xbox for an example of what to do.
    Xbox is selling fine, it's behind ps4 but is far from failing and single handingly scared the crap out of GameStop with their gamepass service which I believe is the future of video games for a Netflix style game service.

    Microsoft is the most consumer friendly of the 3 and Sony is most arrogant BECAUSE they are number 1. You want to see a bad example for Nintendo? Just look at Sony who couldn't give a crap what people want and insult their own legacy.
    Last edited by Glacier; 07-14-2017 at 09:30 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by savinghyrule View Post
    Microsoft is the most consumer friendly of the three now. For the longest time they were the complete opposite. But with Spencer at the helm, Xbox is much more attractive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Glacier View Post
    Xbox is selling fine, it's behind ps4 but is far from failing and single handingly scared the crap out of GameStop with their gamepass service which I believe is the future of video games for a Netflix style game service.

    Microsoft is the most consumer friendly of the 3 and Sony is most arrogant BECAUSE they are number 1. You want to see a bad example for Nintendo? Just look at Sony who couldn't give a crap what people want and insult their own legacy.
    I love Phil Spencer and would totally agree about them being the consumer friendly company. And I totally agree PS is being annoying now with the cross play crap and stuff.

    But the topic was saving your platform and making money. I don't actually know how much of an improvement they've made sales wise. But just looking at the number it doesn't seem that dramatic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kahhhhyle View Post
    I love Phil Spencer and would totally agree about them being the consumer friendly company. And I totally agree PS is being annoying now with the cross play crap and stuff.

    But the topic was saving your platform and making money. I don't actually know how much of an improvement they've made sales wise. But just looking at the number it doesn't seem that dramatic.
    Before Phil Spencer Xbox one was a really hated system and people weren't really buying it. Forcing the kinect and talking about anything other than games.

    Now it's all about the games and a good value. They don't have exclusives like sony does but their goal is to offer gaming at a good value. You are still playing all the big AAA multiplats, great Indies and some notable titles you can't get on ps4 like Forza,halo and gears of war. A lot of people gloss over that people usually buy consoles for games like AC, far cry, NBA, Witcher, WWE, GTA, battlefield ect.

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    By Nintendo getting their sh** together.
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    Quote Originally Posted by drew79 View Post
    By Nintendo getting their sh** together.
    Lol. Yeah that would really help too. Fortunately they seem to have done that with Switch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kahhhhyle View Post
    Lol. Yeah that would really help too. Fortunately they seem to have done that with Switch.
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    Quote Originally Posted by savinghyrule View Post
    Microsoft is the most consumer friendly of the three now. For the longest time they were the complete opposite. But with Spencer at the helm, Xbox is much more attractive.


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    This is essentially the role of the runner up in each generation.

    When you're not winning, you're trying to win over the market by being better value than your competition.

    Nintendo either isn't willing to do this, or isn't aware that they need to do this.

    Take Sony last generation, they realized after two years that they had lost the market to Microsoft and Nintendo (to a certain degree) and had to invest in their product and platform to convince people to get it.
    They remodeled their system a couple of times, paid for exclusives, expanded their portfolio of studios, dropped the price, offered free online, a wide VC collection of past games and had far more exclusives than MS.

    Nintendo's response to being in third place? Cut marketing, leave the product without a revision, refuse to drop the price of the unit throughout it's life, focus on another more successful platform, they didn't invest in new studios, didn't court third parties for games, ended the life cycle early.
    They essentially refused to invest in the platform and whenever game x didn't cause units to fly off shelves they held up their hands and went "what's going on??".
    Wii U had a lot of cool games, but they were secondary titles for a lot of fans. There's usually a particular game (or two) that someone finds to be their go to irresistible title, and the others are just gravy.
    For some people it's Metroid, others a 3D Mario, Zelda or similar. We didn't really see a mainline in any of those series, we got Smash and Mario Kart but it seems that those aren't go to franchises for enough people these days.
    I got mine for Mario Kart, as that's my go to title. Also had Pikmin as well, which is pretty close to a go to title for me these days.
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    The Switch has proven that if you take the time to invest in advertising, and have a big game at launch people are interested in, you can get fans to invest in your product even with a barren launch lineup. I think there are quite a few reasons the Switch is succeeding where the Wii U failed. For one, Nintendo advertised the thing. They spent the money to have their product on TVs across the world. Two, they knew exactly what the Switch needed as an identity and played to it's strengths. Three, they made sure it was known it was a new product and not a "Wii Switch". Four, they have a console with a feature that is apparently attractive to a lot of people. And lastly, I think people wanted to be able to support Nintendo.

    I still believe Nintendo has a ton of fans, but most just didn't have any reason to buy a Wii U. A lot of Nintendo's biggest games didn't even make it to the console, and the third party games it did get were games you could play on other consoles and it isn't like you had the feature of being able to take them outside your house. I think that there actually are quite a few people who would choose multi-plat games on the Switch over the other consoles for that exact reason. It's hard to say that with the Wii U, because the best you could do is lounge around the house with it.

    I think one of the biggest mistakes Nintendo made with the Wii U, besides being cocky after the Wii's success, was leaving the "Wii" in the name. In my opinion, they should have differentiated from the Wii entirely. Instead, they tried to ride that bandwagon and it just didn't work out. A lot of families were probably still satisfied with the Wii and didn't need another console. Another issue was the Wii U releasing literally right before the PS4 and Xbox One and being the weakest console. Many people were probably already saving up for one of those consoles. I think Nintendo played their cards right this time, though, and it will be exciting to see how things progress from here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpd01 View Post
    This is essentially the role of the runner up in each generation.

    When you're not winning, you're trying to win over the market by being better value than your competition.

    Nintendo either isn't willing to do this, or isn't aware that they need to do this.

    Take Sony last generation, they realized after two years that they had lost the market to Microsoft and Nintendo (to a certain degree) and had to invest in their product and platform to convince people to get it.
    They remodeled their system a couple of times, paid for exclusives, expanded their portfolio of studios, dropped the price, offered free online, a wide VC collection of past games and had far more exclusives than MS.

    Nintendo's response to being in third place? Cut marketing, leave the product without a revision, refuse to drop the price of the unit throughout it's life, focus on another more successful platform, they didn't invest in new studios, didn't court third parties for games, ended the life cycle early.
    They essentially refused to invest in the platform and whenever game x didn't cause units to fly off shelves they held up their hands and went "what's going on??".
    Wii U had a lot of cool games, but they were secondary titles for a lot of fans. There's usually a particular game (or two) that someone finds to be their go to irresistible title, and the others are just gravy.
    For some people it's Metroid, others a 3D Mario, Zelda or similar. We didn't really see a mainline in any of those series, we got Smash and Mario Kart but it seems that those aren't go to franchises for enough people these days.
    I got mine for Mario Kart, as that's my go to title. Also had Pikmin as well, which is pretty close to a go to title for me these days.
    I really agree with the premise that it was all in attitude and all in handling of the product. Rarely anyone wants to invest in a system with little support; this has been true for decades and it was pretty obvious early on that the Wii U wasn't going to be supported in the way that it needed to be. The Wii U was a classic case of overpromise and under-deliver. Microsoft is really seeing the same thing with the XBOX. I love by XBOX One S, but I have bought less games for it than any of my previous XBOX generations. Why? Because Microsoft is coasting this generation and I mostly buy consoles for exclusives. If it weren't for Forza/Horizon I would've switched to Sony in a heartbeat and may do so next generation if Microsoft continues to marginally support the system.

    I really think it has to be all in attitude and all in how the system was marketed/handled. Let's look side-by-side:

    1. Price - I'd argue that the Switch is more than the Wii U because it's hardware, in general is more pricey. I picked up a bunch of Wii U pro controllers for $35 and paid $70 for the Switch. Wii U wins here.

    2. Games - There is NO question that the Wii U had better and more prolific retail releases out of the gate than Switch from 3rd parties. Nintendo has supported Switch more out of the gate, I'd say, although it's first two titles (BOTW and Mario Kart) were essentially Wii U ports. So I'd say the Wii U wins on retail games. (Not to mention, 2013 games like Pikmin 3 and W101 murder anything that's currently or appearing on Switch in the next several months )

    3. Services - The Wii U out of the gate had Netflix and other video streaming services and a more complete online infrastructure. It was still rudimentary but the Switch, and it's mobile companion app, is - and mark my words - going to be a constant boat anchor for getting online, 3rd party games on the system. Wii U wins here.

    4. Portability - Switch wins, hands down.

    5. Power - The Switch is more powerful than the Wii U. It's also years newer. However, both are significantly underpowered compared to their competitors. The same power problems that plagued the Wii U plague the Switch. In an era of 4k systems, Switch still is at 1080p. I'd say they are equal here.

    What's left? Outside of marketing, name, instilling of confidence, what's left? Why does the Switch sell much more than the Wii U?

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  32. #32
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    I agree to some extent with the OP. But by "saved" I mean it could have been around Gamecube N64 levels approximately.

    The 2 major pillars that determine a consoles success are Price and Games.

    I 100 % agree that one of the main reasons the Wii U failed was that it was too expensive and it never got a price cut (New MSRP was always $299 in USA). The gamepad was the biggest reason it was so expensive and making it optional early on could have led to a MASSIVE price cut.

    Wii U also needed more games but you know what, I think the Wii sold really well as a budget family system even after the Wii sports fad died down. If they added and marketed that it upscaled Wii games and made them look better I think that would have been a great move that would have helped them to convince the massive Wii install base to upgrade. Instead they all were going elsewhere to play minecraft and move on from Nintendo.

    The console could have easily been retooled in to a budget system that was family friendly. You would probably then have a decent chance of getting them to splurge on a gamepad to upgrade their system for off tv play and a few gamepad centered software titles. It already had a cheap touchscreen with low resolution.

    Switch is succeeding because of better marketing and games. The marketing message of portability is resonating. It looks and seems like a quality product with a good screen which helps the marketing message of targeting older gamers. However, I actually think switch will not go on to sell like Wii but probably more like 3DS....they are going to hit a bubble. Only gamers and those who play Nintendo games will get this system....Breath of the Wild was a great title to bring lapsed Nintendo gamers back....a serious hardcore critically acclaimed game. I do think Switch will eventually get a price cut too. It will sell more because people will see value in having more than one in the household but it will not expand the gaming audience the way the Wii did.
    drew79 and jpd01 like this.

  33. #33
    Releaser of the Hounds WoodenSaucer's Avatar
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    Welcome to the forums, blaise.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by WoodenSaucer View Post
    Welcome to the forums, blaise.
    I agree. But the Wii U started at $349, not $299

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  35. #35
    Moderator GameNChick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by savinghyrule View Post
    I agree. But the Wii U started at $349, not $299

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    poor wii u over priced itself
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  36. #36
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    Switch needs a pack in game.
    Lunkhead.

  37. #37
    Senior Member Tommy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drew79 View Post
    Switch needs a pack in game.
    It has Splatoon 2
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  38. #38
    Releaser of the Hounds WoodenSaucer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    It has Splatoon 2
    As a pack in?
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  39. #39
    Senior Member Tommy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WoodenSaucer View Post
    As a pack in?
    My sister bought one this week.
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  40. #40
    Senior Member jpd01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    My sister bought one this week.
    Great to see it get a quality pack in.


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  41. #41
    Releaser of the Hounds WoodenSaucer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    My sister bought one this week.
    Sweet. How much did it cost her?
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  42. #42
    Senior Member Tommy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WoodenSaucer View Post
    Sweet. How much did it cost her?
    It was on sale. So actually cheaper than a regular Switch without a game lol
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  43. #43
    such pretty skin savinghyrule's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drew79 View Post
    Switch needs a pack in game.
    I agree. And I'm glad it's not 1 2 Switch because that decision helps them get away from the casual focus they used to have.

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  44. #44
    Let's go to bed! Glacier's Avatar
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    Switch needs to pack in the most hardcore manly Doritos MLG game ever. Splatoon 2 (in the states)

  45. #45
    Moderator GameNChick's Avatar
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    just wait till they pack in Odyssey for bundles and Pokemon :O
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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by savinghyrule View Post
    I agree. But the Wii U started at $349, not $299

    Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

    Really i could have sworn the basic set was $299 at launch and when it was eliminated the most basic set "deluxe" was $299.

    Giving more for $299 is not the same thing as a price cut.
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  47. #47
    Releaser of the Hounds WoodenSaucer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaisedinsd View Post
    Really i could have sworn the basic set was $299 at launch and when it was eliminated the most basic set "deluxe" was $299.

    Giving more for $299 is not the same thing as a price cut.
    Yeah, you're right about that. I think so few people bought the basic SKU that most of us probably forgot it existed.
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  48. #48
    such pretty skin savinghyrule's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaisedinsd View Post
    Really i could have sworn the basic set was $299 at launch and when it was eliminated the most basic set "deluxe" was $299.

    Giving more for $299 is not the same thing as a price cut.
    The deluxe was cut from $349 to $299.

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  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by savinghyrule View Post
    The deluxe was cut from $349 to $299.

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    Right but what's Deluxe about it if it's the only thing available. Still always was Wii U starting at $299.
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  50. #50
    such pretty skin savinghyrule's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaisedinsd View Post
    Right but what's Deluxe about it if it's the only thing available. Still always was Wii U starting at $299.
    Deluxe never meant anything anyway. Nintendo's piss poor 2012 marketing just made up a word.

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